Author Topic: Eros Statues Made of Satires, and How They Limit the Political Power of Cookies  (Read 10379 times)

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Offline illiterati

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 09:10 PM »
kay - yeah the topic might be exhausted. my goal is just discussion, i think.

rg - wasn't calling ragweed or the marxistglue exercise satire. i was comparing them to satire as a form of direct address, singling out another poet or their poems or positions and working with them in some way.

the mojave example isn't that important. i can work out how to get away with teasing people on my own =)

here, i'm just interested in why and how satire becomes so productive in "Mega Poetry" movements.

i like what you were saying about whatever is being satirized shaping the satire.



Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 10:10 PM »


Why were you calling out Marxist? And why with group participation?

You call it satire but I think I call it poetic response ..sometimes it can be a collaboration ..other times it may have been vindictiveness or many other reasons. After the Beatles broke up, Paul came out with a album called Ram. He was holding a ram by the horns. John came out with an album with a picture in it ..holding the ears of a pig ..lol.. supposingly they were fueding or wanted people to think they were. Adele's recent hit Someone Like You (actually most that CD was) was a bash against her former Lover. Back in the ninties there was a song about a couple that broke up and the guy was  bashing his ex, the song was called Fuck You. His ex did a song called Fuck You Back ..lol..  it was a collobration.

I once managed a Jazz Singer ..we packed clubs where ever she sang. One night some drunk heckled she was pathedic. As a performer she kept playing. After the show, she asked me if she was any good and broke down crying. All because of 1 drunk heckler out of 100s of fans. Appearances can be deceiving. And the higher up the ladder of fame the more the abuse.

In regards to why and how satire poetry becomes so productive. Is it in all cases? Birther Trump once said bad publicity is better than no publicity.
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Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 10:15 PM »


Kay, you gonna make me some cookies? Yum I love chocolate chip peanut butter cookies  *hehe*

Oh and wine too, you are a sweetheart..

 :wine :dblu :dblu
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Offline illiterati

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2012, 10:46 AM »
we might be getting somewhere.

i think you're right to distinguish "poetic response" as a broader category, and satire as just one kind of poetic response.

so, that helps me rethink my original question, as something like, "what is it that distinguishes between satire as a poetic response (which can be productive) and satire as petty vindictiveness (which isn't)?"

the beatles example is a good one. what makes it poetic response, rather than (or, at least, in addition to) vindictiveness?

the thing i was trying to say earlier is that i think "direct address" is an important part of poetic response,

and in the examples you're using, the public nature of the direct address is important. the direct response is for the other person, but also for an audience -- two artists responding to each other through an audience.

so far, if we're in agreement, we can say that poetic response is:

-some form of creative work (visual, poetic, etc.)
-a direct address (responding to a specific poet, poem, or... something specific)
-and public (it's for an audience as much as for the other person)

so would we be willing to allow satire or "making fun" the possibility of being constructive, rather than personally vindictive, if it's a creative work, a direct address, and public?

or how should we modify it or add to it to make it work?


(p.s. - i wasn't calling out marxistglue, i was just addressing him directly by starting a game i thought he would be interested in (since it's based on his name, after all) -- i just brought it into the conversation as an example of direct address, not an example of satire, making fun, or teasing)


Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2012, 12:14 PM »


I am still a bit unclear where this is going? ..lol.. I think you're asking if we playfully can create satirical poems and comments? If I am correct, then let's try this. We'll sandbox it in the Experimental forum and call it something like - The Satirical Poet ..if participation is good, we can later create and move it to its own forum.

The guidelines might be something like..

Quote
A forum to express a lighthearted playful approach to write poetry and to constructively critique. Only poems and comments within this topic may be used unless you have written consent of a poet or critic outside of this forum. This forum meaning The Satirical Poet. Vindictiveness and disrespect will not be tolerated. The idea would be first make the audience or poet laugh, then make them think via wit. No pun intended. The purpose would be for entertainment and enhancement of our beloved poetic creative.

If I am correct in this thought, let's create the topic in Experimental and see where it leads us.
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Offline illiterati

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 12:27 PM »

just for discussion, rg. i'm not necessarily interested in such a forum, and i don't know that it would generate any interest.

i suppose you're waiting for the moment when we agree on a definition: a puff of smoke envelops me. from within its shroud I say: "HA! a contract signed in blood!"

?

no infernal bargains, here. i won't attempt to transform the results of this discussion into a basis for practice, on this site--even if we agree on a definition for constructive satire.

theory only.

-matt

Offline dublinsteve

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 12:36 PM »
don your satire attire
grab a pen gorged with red ink
let its tip spit out Hell's fire
but only towards writing that stinks


Do you mean that kind of thing?   :poet

Offline Kay

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 12:41 PM »
yes, it will take both of those I have a feeling.  :sweetkiss




Kay, you gonna make me some cookies? Yum I love chocolate chip peanut butter cookies  *hehe*

Oh and wine too, you are a sweetheart..

 :wine :dblu :dblu

Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 12:51 PM »

I see ..LOL.. we're suppose to be discussing constructive satirical poetry. Why didn't you say so? And we have to agree on it? AH!

How about we discuss the difference between Horatian and Juvenalian Satire? Then we might get some where  wink*




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Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2012, 12:58 PM »


Well I'm game Kay. I have a feeling you can bake an awesomeness cookie. Can we also collaborate some satirical poems?


                             :wine :cheekiss
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Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2012, 01:02 PM »


Geez Steve, you're such a poetic whiz.




(Horatian style satire)
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Offline illiterati

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 01:03 PM »
rg - i've already displayed heroic restraint in keeping my responses below 300wds.

but i'm only human. moving on to the differences between horatian and juvenalian satire would be setting the bottle down right in front of me.


bravo, steve -

sure - something like that. although -- another thing about satire,

to me it seems like an appropriate device

only when directed at good writing? or writing with some authority? or claims about poetry with some influence?

(i.e., when directed at those who can defend themselves)

Offline cafeRg

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 01:16 PM »

Matt have you ever listened to .. The Point by Harry Nilsson?


Harry Nilsson narrates "The Point"



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Offline illiterati

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Re: making fun of each other
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2012, 02:33 PM »

not until now.

so the moral of the story is...

i should wear a pointed cap?

i shouldn't tease roundheads?

i've chosen the wrong profession,

and should pursue my destiny as a singer-songwriter?