Author Topic: Academia and Obscurity  (Read 1591 times)

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Offline illiterati

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Academia and Obscurity
« on: June 05, 2012, 10:06 PM »

Let me reframe my initial response as a claim that might be able to frame a conversation:


I've seen several people on the AX (this is for you too, Bill) take aggressive stances against "obscurity" by blaming it on academia.

My claim is that the tyranny of clarity, "common rules of prose," and emotional transparency is far more representative of institutionalized academic poetry and its legions than of any anti-academic or lowbrow position.

The example I give in response to Steve is the wholesale alliance between IBPC judges and academia. Marjorie Perliff's article, linked in the topic "on poetry stagflation" in Patching PL Speakeasy, is also highly relevant..

My specific criticism of "academia bashing," when used to bolster an aggressive stance against "obscurity," is that it is completely disingenuous -- it's a political move that presents itself as a somehow ostracized or censured margin, while actually relying on the authority and influence of the mainstream position that has been in part enforced by academia.



***

What's with the academia bashing?

I challenge you to find more than a handful of past IBPC judges who don't work in or have some strong professional connection to academia.

Respect where respect is due.

You might get a judge from the halls of academia who likes obscure and obtuse. They are out there and they land here on occasion!

Offline dublinsteve

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Re: Re: Deviance is an Art by ~jadedslate
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 11:59 PM »
Not that my opinion should matter to you for any reason, whether in this good poet's thread or elsewhere, but the genesis of most poetic obscure and obtuse is through the birth canals of academia. I respect who and what I do and leave your respect of who and what to you.

Offline jdstaley

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Re: Re: Deviance is an Art by ~jadedslate
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 08:36 AM »
obscurity was once mistaken for originality and creative
inaccessibility can sometimes double for insight.
I know what you are saying.
All Ways.

Offline illiterati

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Re: Re: Deviance is an Art by ~jadedslate
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 09:19 AM »

No, but whether your statement vis-a-vis IBPC judges makes any sense or not should matter to you. They're almost ALL from academia.


Not that my opinion should matter to you for any reason, whether in this good poet's thread or elsewhere, but the genesis of most poetic obscure and obtuse is through the birth canals of academia. I respect who and what I do and leave your respect of who and what to you.

Offline cafeRg

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 09:29 AM »

Is part of this thread missing or was this a breakaway from another thread? #justasking






Disclaimer: cafeRg could be wrong.

Offline illiterati

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 09:43 AM »
A breakaway from "Deviance" on the AX.

Didn't want to clutter up the poem with this tangential conversation, and I thought maybe it could become an occasion for a discussion about clarity and obscurity in verse, or the relationship of institutionalizes poets/poetry to thto other cultural forms

Offline cafeRg

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 10:01 AM »
yea I see now.. you created a new thread ..that's cool .since the topic is not so much on the original poem but on the topic of "Academia and Obscurity"

There's an option below "Attachments and other options" where you can change all the titles of a topic to read the same. Probably also split and move Steve's last comment to the original poem to the new topic. Or you could end up with redundacy in the original thread. The move alert probably isn't necessary either.

Just my thoughts..
Disclaimer: cafeRg could be wrong.

Offline illiterati

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 10:16 AM »
Oh. How do I do it without a move alert? That's the default setting - I'll make sure to uncheck the option in the future.

I left Steve's original comment because it was a legitimate comment addressed to the poem.

Offline cafeRg

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 10:39 AM »
yea ..just uncheck it before moving the post or topics.

Do you see where to change the topics title in all post for the new thread?






Disclaimer: cafeRg could be wrong.

Offline illiterati

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 10:46 AM »


Steve - I've expanded and clarified my initial response at the top of this post.

Rg - I'm on my phone at the moment, but I'll make sure to find it when I'm able. Thanks for the tips.

Offline illiterati

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Re: Academia and Obscurity
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 10:58 AM »

And the alliance between academia and the tyranny of clarity is far more than a function of the present:

Unfailingly, academic mainstream poetry has brutalized avant-garde verse of any stripe. Fom Dada and the modernists onward, innovative verse movements have developed outside academia in the face of fierce opposition.