Author Topic: Lamentation for Arizona  (Read 16407 times)

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Offline noirjente

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Lamentation for Arizona
« on: May 30, 2010, 12:06 PM »
There is no room for a King,
no quarter in a dry land.
New Bethlehem is barren;
no mangers, inns or stables.

                                                   (" . . .give US this day . . .but not him")

Who adores a Prince of Peace?
certainly not the natives-
their god is for them only,
and freedom lives on postcards.

                                                    ("Your will be done . . .if it's ours")

Forget pharoahs; they have laws!
Road rage rules justify hate.
They won't let my people go,
though they claim to want us gone.

                                                    (Forgive not our trespasses)

They queen our young from our lore,
promoting history's lies.
Truth would foster self-respect,
and proud folks conquer bondage . . .

                                                     (Deliver us from evil)

The emperor is naked;
yet, some fools laud the fashion!
Lord, free them from ignorance,
that all our chains be lifted.

                                                      (Now and forever, Amen)
 

Offline Halo

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 06:15 PM »
It seems to me that both Jew and Gentile are under the same bondage, all inclusive. 
Your words cover the situation of the whole earth.

Excellent write, noirjente.
Be careful of your thoughts; they may become words at any moment.  ~  Ira Gassen

Offline Bill

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 10:57 AM »
noirjente,

I had to smile when I read the title. 

After reading the body of the work, I was still smiling.  A quote came to mind.  The phrase from the song in "Evita," came to mind.  Paraphrased, "Don't weep for me, noirjente."

I live in Arizona, and I'm probably going to attend the Diamondbacks baseball game this Saturday.

Regards,
Bill


Offline noirjente

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 07:00 PM »
Halo and Bill, thank you both for taking the time to read the piece.

Halo. . .I concur that this state of affairs is repeated too often the world over. Both Jew and Gentile must take care not to become the thing they despise.

Bill . . .ironic choice of music given the Perons were accused of fascism and their Argentina was a popular haven for Nazi's. Enjoy the game.

Offline Bill

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2010, 10:09 AM »
noirjente,

Though it was ad hominemally speaking, touche'.  I guess I'm going to have to start a protest movement against Madonna to atone for my ill-conceived irony.

Now that I've read through the piece a couple more times, the something that was whirling about in my mind suddenly stood still long enough for me to see it. It is interesting to note how often Jesus (with direct or indirect references) is used as the poster child for championing the rights of the politically oppressed.  He was a man the people would have made king, one they would have followed, even at the sacrifice of their own lives, in throwing off an oppressive regime. Yet, he evaded a popular uprising in his name, and when questioned about paying taxes to that regime said, "Render unto Caeser the things that are Caeser's..."  He did not engage in civil disobediance, nor did he encourage it. The record of his arrest underscores that.  According to one of his promoters, his focus was on taking away (in the sense of the punishment for) the sins of the world.  And Paul, arguably the greatest advocate for Christ, also advocated submission to the governing authorities.  In that respect, your poem's heavy use of biblical references is ironic.

One other matter.  I am attracted to the line,  "They queen our young from our lore," but I'm not sure how to understand that line.  "queen" is in the position of the main verb, but I'm not sure how to interpret its use that way.  Any help you are willing to give would be appreciated.

Well, that's the end of my annual foray into the world of online political and social commentary.  I'm going back to my cave now to continue to decorate its walls with childish scrawls and indecipherable images, while mumbling incoherantly to no one about nothing.

As always, I encourage you to keep writing.

Offline noirjente

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 12:07 PM »
I have been smiling as well . . .Bill, I knew I could count on you to bring something novel.

Ad hominem? Moi? Let's see . . .I write a piece which alludes to facism taking root in the great state of Arizona to which you reply by stating it reminded you of a song from a musical whose subject matter is . . .an accused facist. And I did take care to say accused as there are arguments to the contrary (what is not in question is that Nazis took refuge there- however some also took refuge in other places, including our great nation so maybe your point is well made). Nothing incongruent there that I can see, perhaps you can explain it to me. Notwithstanding my confusion, should you actually go through with the anti-Madonna protest, count me in as this should have been done a long time ago on general principle alone.

As to the biblical references, perhaps there is irony. But, isn't that why one beseeches a higher power in the first place? To intervene divinely where human beings should or could not? And, pointing out how a law threatens our fundamental way of life is not mere "civil disobedience"; it is an obligation of a free people who are determined to remain that way. Besides, my allusions here to Dr. King and Jesus- princes of peace- are not as much as champions of the oppressed, but as reminders of how people are straying farther and farther from what they taught us.   

Here's help for understanding the line "They queen our young . . ." Think pawns reaching the 8th rank, not sovereigns. I hope it helps.

Again, I am glad you took time to read the piece and know that I always welcome what you have to say (even if it may not jibe well with what I believe).   

Offline Bill

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 01:23 PM »
noirjente.

Yeah, you're probably right.  Overly sensitive / defensive response.  Necessary occupational hazard reflected in personal matters.  I'll go wash off my keyboard with a soft cloth.

I kinda sorta figured "queen" was a chess move reference, 'cause it is the only arena where that noun is usually used as a verb, and your spelling is on the dime any of the times I've read your stuff.  On the other hand, I saw a possibility for, "queer"  (though 'n' and 'r' are distant from each other on the keyboard) and wondered if you were waxing anachronistic in usage.  But I needed confirmation. 

Thanks.  Well, back to the cave.

Regards,
Bill

Offline A-FRIEND

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 08:54 PM »
The more I read this noirjente, the more it defines certain factions that are down right scary in theses times.
The racist Az law, the teabaggers, Rand Paul, right wing hate radio, just on and on. Everyone grants themselves the privileges you describe so eloquently and with ease of tounge and purpose wax on about why others don't deserve the same things.
Stop looking at the light. Instead, look at what is being illuminated by the light.

Offline noirjente

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2010, 01:21 PM »
I agree, A-FRIEND, these are fast becoming scary times. I have to say again that I agree with Halo- what I wrote can be applied to many more situations in the world than just Arizona. But, the piece was about Arizona and I feel many more Americans should be alarmed at what is going on there. What most folks don't realize (or just refuse to see) is that S.B.1070 paves the way for anyone to be detained for little or no reason. After all, just what does an illegal immigrant look like? There are folks here illegally from every corner of the earth and this law is just abuse waiting to happen.

Offline Bill

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2010, 06:09 PM »
noirjente, A-friend,

I do not wish to enter into a debate regarding SB 1070.  It is what it is, and people will form their opinions about it, endless debates will rage on.

So, the only question I ever ask anyone is this:  Have you done the following.
1.)  Have you read the law in its entirety, as currently revised?  The emphasis in that question is on you reading the law, not reading excerpts from it, not merely reacting to how others have reacted to it. 
2.)  After reading the law, have you compared it to existing federal statutes which, if enforced, would require the same actions, and which, had they been enforced would have negated the need to write such a law.
3.)  Have you had a constitutional lawyer review it or have you read a review by a lawyer who has studied its constitutionality or lack thereof?
4.)  Have you asked Hispanics who are legal citizens of this state, people who by right of birth or by right of study and oath, legally live and work in the state, interact more closely with the illegal immigrant population of the state than any other ethnic group, who are impacted as directly or indirectly by the law, or more so, as any of Arizona's other citizens, whether they agree with the law?

That's it.  That's all I ask.  If you have done those things, and you still hold it to be something new in the world, that is, a state law which countermands existing federal statutes and negates constitutional rights of United States citizens, well and good.  Rant on against it.  That is your right as a citizen.

My right is to stop writing about it.  And with this post, I shall. 

Regards,
Bill

Ps.  Back to my cave.  The bats need feeding.


Offline noirjente

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2010, 09:25 PM »
Well stated, Bill. These are indeed questions that need to be asked, as I completely agree with you on this one aspect; one should be no more tolerant of knee jerk reactions from the bill's detractors as one is being from it's supporters.

I think "knee jerk" is an apt term, as I am among those who believe that certain parties seized upon a tragic murder to railroad through an unnecessary edict that potentially gives police state powers to law enforcement (and whoever is calling the shots above law enforcement).

Yes, I have read SB 1070 and if one cannot see the inequities in it, then there is truly no framework for dialogue- debate would most cetainly be a moot exercise. Just because its constitutionality has not yet been challenged doesn't mean it is consistent with federal law. Federal statutes can be infringed upon by restricting their implementation, as we saw in the case of Jim Crow laws in this country's past; but they also can be encroached upon by an unlawful expansion of interpretation, as we are seeing in Arizona. This law legitimizes racial profiling and/or gives police the right to detain anyone they choose to as long as they can justify stopping them in the first place (and it takes a naivete I havent had since grade school to allow that cops will not ever stop someone under some false pretense). Maybe I am wrong, but from where I sit I've not yet encountered the policeman who couldn't come up with some "perfectly legal" reason to stop anyone he or she saw fit. For example, I've been detained by police who told me that I was stopped because I was wearing the same color shirt as a suspect- even when not much else matched. So the strongest argument supporters of SB 1070 have- that it wont be profiling because it only comes into play after some other violation has already been committed- is just unrealistic chin music. 

As to what Hispanics think of the law, I need to know which ones you've been conversing with, Bill. I have yet to see or meet any latino- mexican or otherwise- who doesnt have at least some small problem with this law. If you can connect me with some who feel otherwise or have a link to an organization that is Hispanic and supports SB 1070, I'd be glad to hear their views on the subject. . .honestly.

Also, what is most confusing about support for SB 1070 is the contention that it is somehow the same as existing federal statutes which are not being enforced. If that is the case, why write a new law? Why not just marshall state efforts to implement more rigorous application of what is already on the books?

Last, but not least, one thing about this law that is not being talked about much is the folks behind it. As I alluded to earlier, there was a definite agenda behind this law and in order to discern what that agenda is one need only look at its author (Kris Kobach) and at its main supporter in the Arizona legislature (Russell Pearce). One should also research FAIR, the organization most intimately involved. Why is FAIR important? Perhaps because the Southern Poverty Law Center (the same orginization which fought and greatly harmed the Ku Klux Klan, via both criminal justice and civil lawsuits) has designated FAIR as a hate group. These are the folks and organizations at the heart of SB 1070.

We should not be worried that Neo-Nazi sympathizers, racial supremists, and hate groups are the principle entities in the drafting of such sensitive legislation?

Rant ended . . . 

Offline A-FRIEND

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2010, 11:04 AM »
Bill there is so much I could say, but I'll confine my comments to two points.
1) There is a problem with illegal immigration, but that does not justify addressing the problem with racist laws.

2) One needs go no further than this quote from you to make the point this is most definitely a racist law. No I'm not saying you are a racist, I'm saying those that support this law want to ignore what it really does.
Quote
Have you asked Hispanics who are legal citizens of this state, people who by right of birth or by right of study and oath, legally live and work in the state, interact more closely with the illegal immigrant population of the state than any other ethnic group, who are impacted as directly or indirectly by the law, or more so, as any of Arizona's other citizens, whether they agree with the law?

That is the entire summation of why this law is racist. It is directed at one single group of people. To further prove that point the same folks have now outlawed teaching about other races and are even going after Hispanic teachers.
Now I would ask a question. Are there white illegal immigrants? The answer is yes there are many. So why are Hispanics being single out. There is no need in anyone trying to say that's not the case because even in your quote you singled them out, and further more I've never talked to a single supporter of this law that didn't.
So what does an illegal immigrant look like? Here's what will happen. A car is stopped. One passenger is white, the other is Hispanic. Who do you think is going to be demanded of to produce papers? But guess what? The white person is an illegal  Irish immigrant. That's a true experience by the way.
I've never heard those supporting this law discuss the fact there are white illegals in this country. There is a reason for that. Need I say it?

Not one single person can make a legitimate claim this isn't a racist law and my hope is AZ is boycotted into oblivion if necessary.
Stop looking at the light. Instead, look at what is being illuminated by the light.

Offline A-FRIEND

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 01:18 PM »
More from Russell Pearce and his racist antics in AZ.  So now he's introducing racist laws against American born children and flying in the face of the 14th amendmant. Read the article, then read the comments.
I challenge anyone to defend this. I defy anyone to tell me this is not racism at its best.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100612/us_time/08599199606400
Stop looking at the light. Instead, look at what is being illuminated by the light.

Offline elise

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Re: Lamentation for Arizona
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 05:48 PM »
-tiptoes in to this obviously heated debate with my head ducked low-

I am here to learn. 

I attempted to read and comprehend the actual bill.  Good luck.  So I researched further.  I have a few points:



Okay so we are against "racial profiling"of Muslims at airports...but we are NOT against "racial profiling" of Hispanics who are here to make a better life for their families.  Am I correct so far?

I agree with those who say that we would be like "Nazi Germany" if we THINK someone is illegal just by the color of their skin.  Authorites should not be able to stop and detain someone due to how they look.  (unless they LOOK like they have a bomb attached to them, or look like someone on a terrorist list).

But then...SOMETHING needs to be done to be sure LEGAL people aren't supporting ILLEGAL people.  Aren't there gentler ways to do it?  Ideas?  Thoughts?  Opinions?

This doesn't need to be "heated"...but educational.

I felt it shelter to speak to you  ~Emily Dickinson